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Interview no. 001
Restrictions
Project
The Lebanese in North Carolina Project
Date
Interviewee
Powell, Bearta
Occupation
DOB
1/26/1966
Ethnicity
Lebanese
Interviewer
Khater, Akram.
Abstract
Transcript
Yes
Transcript
Access
Online.
Number of
Pages
Subject
Topical
North Carolina—Lebanese
Subject Name
Listening Copy
Audio Access
Listening Copy File
Type
Medium of Originial
Duration
Approx. 50 min. for Whole Tape/ Plus 10 min. for Partial Tape
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Notes
Family history
Yes
Field Notes
Tape Log
Supplementary
Material
Citation
Interview with Bearta Powell by Akram Khater [Interview
date][Interview number], the Lebanese in North Carolina Project
(insert project #), insert collection information
Collection in
Repository
Repository
Host
AK: Go ahead
BP: My name is Bearta Al-Shakar Powell, 1/26/66 is the year I was born. And I was born in
Ma’asser el Chouf.
AK: In Lebanon?
BP. In Lebanon.
AK: Ok, so let’s just start out with just what you remember from your early childhood. Your
parents, their names, what they did, just your early memories of growing up in Lebanon.
When your parents were still around.
BP: Ok, the earliest memory I have is when I was five years old. When my mom died…
because she was tending to her grandmother, who was sick, and was kind of exhausted all the
time and all of a sudden we heard she had gone to the hospital for uh…you know in Lebanon
they don’t report everything perfectly, what the reason of her death, but I think what it was is
that they gave her an injection for jaundice or something like that and things went bad and
she died like 30 days after her mother died, and then my dad came and took us—five of us—
he took us, his name is Ramiz Al-Shakar and her name was Isabelle Maalouf. And uh so my
dad came and took my three sisters and one brother. I’m the number 4 in the family and my
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youngest sister at the time was maybe 2 years old, something like that, so he took us back to
Ma’asser el Chouf, we were in Zahlé at the time. And so then um, he went back to work and
he left us by ourselves and, it’s true…
and um…
AK: How old was the oldest?
BP: the oldest was ten years old, so she actually took care of us. There was a teacher he liked
in a church type setting, and my sister would ask her for her help or whatever, but we lived
down the stairs so the lady would come and check on us once in a while and some of the
relatives helped and things like that.
AK: Where was he working that he had to leave?
BP: It was in the equivalent of the air force, but we don’t know. I know he had a uniform we
would see him going and coming back months later, so we barely saw him. And so
eventually…I think a couple of months into it he put us in boarding schools, so the youngest,
the baby, went to live with one of our relatives—my uncle—in Ma’asser el Chouf and then I
and my oldest sister and I went to a boarding school…the other two…everybody went
different places basically and it was the Catholic boarding school and one time he came to
see us and saw all of us. He went to see the baby then he went to see Nour, which is number
two…the second child and then he went to see me and my sister who were together, and then
we said bye and everything. He looked kind of pale and kind of sad and really really skinny.
And I wrote all those details in the book, but then he went to see my brother last, he saw my
brother, and he died in front of my brother. So…
AK: What year would this have been? What year did he pass away?
BP: That was 6 months after my mother died. So he died 6 months later.
AK: So this is all in 1971?
BP: Yes. So ‘72, ‘71
AK: And you never knew what caused his death?
BP: Well he died of a heart attack. My mother we never knew because we think it was some
sort of injection to the liver, whatever you know…they don’t really write really good…
AK: Right. So you didn’t have a death certificate that specified?
BP: No
AK: So what happened after he died?
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BP: So then my uncle was in charge. You know how it is, the brother takes over in Lebanon.
And he um, he took us…he gathered us all up and we went to…he started taking us for a
ride…so he took us to Bikfaya. You know it was really pretty it was mountainous and uh he
showed us a village, he told us he’d be right back, so he stopped and there was some kids and
we were playing around and he went to talk to somebody and then came back and, you know,
left us there, basically it was the orphanage, the SOS children’s orphanage that he left us in.
And then you know, we said bye and that was that…and it was actually a good orphanage,
there have, there is one or two here in the us, its called Children’s Village SOS and uh, they
um, basically put 8 or 9 kids together in a house, and there is a mother who stayed, and aunt
or a mother, and she takes care of the kids basically and they pay her to be there 24
hours...they give her vacation. I mean it was nice and we adjusted fine. It was hard…and then
the war came in what, ‘73?
AK: ’75...yea. Did you ever see your uncle or relatives?
BP: no they barely ever visited. You know how they are, they are Lebanese people. They
were kind of…one of them was kind of ashamed of us being in an orphanage and the other
aunt was too busy you know, to come see us, or too sick, there was always something…there
was a couple…like my uncle would make an effort to come see us but we kind of gave up on
him because in that orphanage you can go and get your kids at Christmas time or at Easter or
something like that, and we weren’t the only ones, there was a hundred other orphans that
never saw their family…so then, you know, we got used to them not coming and then uh…
AK; So you were five at the time, or approximately five?
BP: Well at that time maybe six by then, six or seven because I think my mom died when I
was five and then by that time, 6, and you know, it was a good orphanage and they were
really nice to us…as best they could really and having 8 kids, 9 kids to manage and stuff
but…
AK: Did the kids, did all five of you…?
BP: Yea we stayed together and that’s what they do in that orphanage, that was really nice,
and each house would have a bathroom just like a real house…it was nice. It was tough
during the war you know when it started they cleared out a little small room for us to put our
mattresses in case there is shelling or bombs and um they did another one, a big one, for
everybody and it was really dingy and dark and scary…then we would go either place in case
we heard the bombs and stuff like that.
AK: So these were shelters from the bombardment?
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BP: Yea, yea. And in the orphanage there were kids who were Muslim, kids who were
Christian and it was really nice to have…we both respected each other learned about each
others cultures and religion and got along really well.
AK: Did you…growing up in the orphanage…were you able to leave very much, or was
most of your life…?
BP: Yea, well we had…a bus took us from there to the [unintelligible] every morning at like
730, we would all hop on the bus and it would take us to the catholic school.
AK: In Bikfaya?
BP: In Bikfaya. And then, you know, that was really as far as we would go outside the
orphanage. Eventually when we were like 12, 13, 14, we would take walks on the street like
they did in Lebanon…go get ice cream or something like that. (Unintelligible)
[Interruption]
OTHER: Can we pause here for just a second? I need a visual read on my sound levels. Just
to make sure
AK: OK.
AK: So…did they give you pocket money?
BP: They gave us a dollar a month I think, or the equivalent.
[Exchange in Arabic]
[End of Interruption]
AK: So there was corporal punishment?
BP: Yea, it wasn’t too bad, but here you can’t get away with it.
AK: No no, thank heavens. Uhh…we’re ok? So talk a little more, maybe, about your
experience growing up in the environment. The things that you remember…whether its in
terms of going to school, or in terms of just life in general. You know, relationships with
your siblings uh… and the kinds of things that you took away from that experience.
BP: Actually its one of the best memories of our childhood there, because we had friends, we
had fun, we laughed all the time with our sisters and brother we had chores just like you
would with your own family and after going to school we made friends there and did
homework and they sometimes would bring a tutor to help us out if we needed help with
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homework and so they were really nice place for the circumstances it was really you
know...they had Christmas, we celebrated Christmas, we celebrated Ramadan, you know
everything so they included us with everybody. Not just Christmas.
AK: And…when the war started in ‘75 you would have been nine years old, ten years old
and so what was…did you have a sense of what was going on? Or were you too young to sort
of appreciate it?
BP: No no, I remember…it was…they showed us drills…they started telling us what to do if
we hear this or if we hear that…the bomb sounds like this…and you need to crawl in a little
ditch and cover your ears so they showed us how to do all that stuff. They showed us where
the shelter was, to run to the shelter if we hear anything loud and so one of the sweetest
things, I think, was they used to tell us not to be too…to comfort us…they would tell us
listen: “They know, everybody, the Christians and the Muslims know in this orphanage there
is Muslim kids and Christian kids so they’re not going to bomb here. They know where we
are, so…” And I don’t know if that was true or not but it made us feel, you know, a little bit
better. So really in the whole orphanage we would hear the bombs everywhere. One bomb hit
the orphanage, and one kid died and his brother’s leg was amputated, so it was kind of hard
but most of the time it was around us, not in the orphanage.
AK: And, in terms of the sort of things as you were growing up in this orphanage, I mean, as
you talk to your sisters and your brother, were you beginning to formulate a notion of what
was going to happen to you in the future?
BP: No, no. We were thinking like next minute, you know, lets play here, close to the house
in case the bomb, you know hits…that’s all, really. We were thinking, remember, there was
no electricity, it was really pitch dark at night. We played cards all the time in a room that
didn’t have any windows. It was really hard…that’s my worst, I think, I still don’t like the
dark, now. And um, because I kept on imagining bugs crawling…it was kind of creepy but
other than that we were together and it was nice. We didn’t have enough food sometimes we
didn’t have enough water sometimes but it wasn’t really bad. I’m sure some people really
experienced a lot worse.
AK: Did you see any sort of, aside from the bomb that you said exploded, did you see any
immediate violence around you, around the village, the SOS village, or you yourself saw the
direct results of the civil war or were you more sheltered from that sort of stuff?
BP: Well we saw it on TV. Remember they used to show the bodies, they used to show
everything, you know, they didn’t really screen any blood or anything. They showed these
moms crying over their dead babies and stuff…so that was more direct in terms of like death.
But aside from the one kid we would just see, you know how Bikfaya is kind of like a
mountain and you would see the bombs going back and forth, back and forth, and it was kind
of fine for us to be outside watching at night. You see who is fighting who. So it was kind of,
you know…that was the closest…
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AK: Fireworks?
BP: Fireworks, yeah.
AK: And so, you were there from 1971 till what year, 1985?
BP: Yes. In the same…
AK: 14 years?
BP: Yeah.
AK: So, how is it that as you sort of went through this. At what point did you decide that it is
time for you and whoever went with you, to come to the United States? How did that come
about?
BP: Well you know, in this orphanage, at 18 years old you have to kind of…in a nice way
they kind of tell you to find your own thing so…sometimes they helped us out, you know,
sometimes they didn’t the other kids and uh they helped you get set up either in university or
work or an apartment or whatever it is and umm, for us I was 18 at the time and I knew, I
always knew that I wanted to come to the US because we always idealized the
US…[Arabic]…it’s always, you know, he’s going to the US! You know, and we saw
Dynasty and all those things, so you know, we were in love with it. And I knew because of
the mentality in Lebanon, I couldn’t really see myself, you know, staying there for a long
time. But even I knew at the time, everybody, if you remember the time you and I were there
it was more like…everybody just wanted to get out…doesn’t matter where, just get out. And
so it was really hard, but I knew something would work out so my youngest sister was 16 and
we um...
AK: What’s her name?
BP: Nina…yea… We decided to just apply for a student visa. But my brother at the time met
an American missionary there in Lebanon. And he got married to her and they came already,
they live in Mebane now. And we knew we wanted to be close to him and so I applied for a
student visa and uh, first we went to Cyprus because the fighting was so bad. We went to
Cyprus and applied for a student visa and they wouldn’t give it to us so we stayed there for
like a month…and keep going back and applying every time and so that didn’t work. So then
we went to France and in Paris…we went three times…and the third time…you know how
they ask you the object of going as a student is that you’re going getting your education and
leaving well we didn’t know that and they would say “why are you coming to the US?” and
we would say “We just want to get out of here.” We said the opposite of what we were
supposed to answer! And so the last time, this lady said, gosh I wish I could remember her
name, she was really sweet, she said “When I ask you why you are coming, don’t say
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anything about that, just say you want an education.” So she kind of gave us the answer, she
felt sorry for us that day and so she gave us the visa at the end, so that was nice. And so I
came to Henderson first because I knew somebody there…my brother knew somebody there.
And I got my two-year associate degree, and I transferred some courses to NC State. Well
before that, of course I didn’t have any money, we were dirt poor…and we couldn’t work so
what I did was I waited on…I stayed with a lady who had Parkinson’s disease at night and
would take care of her at night and during the day go to school and I think she gave me like
40 dollars a week. And so I saved that money and I went to college and then eventually I
graduated and so I met this old couple who had two boys, they were really really sweet and
they asked me…I kind of knew them, I talked to them…saying bye to them because I knew
that at some point my visa was going to expire and I had to leave and uh they said “why
don’t you come live with us? We’ll send you to NC State. Both of our boys went there and
they really liked it.” And I was like “OK.”I didn’t really have a choice and Lebanon was
terrible, so I applied and I got in…I wanted to do computers first, I wanted to do computers
and then I switched to business because I thought it was more general.”
AK: Well, let’s just go through a little bit…get a little more details about this. So while
you’re in Lebanon and you’re trying to figure out “I need to get out of here” and you take
your sister, Nina. Was your brother helping you at all, trying to figure out how to make a
living? Were you working?
BP: No, no I was still a student. And in the last year of school there, we couldn’t even finish
the year because the war was so bad they stopped sending us to school so then his wife…my
brother and his wife, they said “We’re going to go ahead and go to the US,” because they
were evacuating all the Americans, remember they bombed the embassy at the time and so
they were having everybody leave, and so they wanted her to leave too and they went ahead
and left and they kind of helped us in the background…where to go and things like that. But
my sister and I, she was sixteen and she barely spoke English and I spoke a little bit and
um…
AK: But you were fluent in French?
BP: In French? Yea.
AK: How did you manage to get to France, then? Did you have relatives in France?
BP: No, my brother knew somebody there. We do have relatives in France but we didn’t
know exactly where they were, so we stayed with these missionaries, they were like, I think
would sing songs and spread the…you know that’s what they do is just meet the people in
the community and help others, so that’s what they did…
AK: Do you remember what church these missionaries came from?
BP: No. I remember their names, but…
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AK: So you stayed with them for that month…
BP: Yea yea, we kept on going back. Maybe like two months even because they would make
an appointment. Of course, they were helping us here. I don’t know who all besides my
brother helped us but um…you know…there was a lot of praying and stuff like that.
AK: And so what your first impression when you landed in the states? You flew to JFK I
assume, and then you took a plane or bus…
BP: Yea we took another plane…it was just really surreal because when we’d never been on
an airplane…you know that far away from Lebanon before, but looking back at it now is
worse than it was at the time. Everything was, you know like how we were hungry
sometimes, we didn’t have food or water. So now it’s worse, because you know what you are
missing, but before you go “oh whatever” and so it wasn’t really bad. Once we got here we
felt that we were going to see our brother… it was nice and you know we felt safe and a lot
of people pitched in and helped and you know people that my sister-in-law knew.
AK: And you and Nina stayed together with your brother, or did you get your own
apartment?
BP: Well first, before we could figure out how things were going to work out we…Nina
found somebody who wanted her to stay with them…through my bother. They wanted
somebody, like an exchange student to help out with the little kids…so that worked out well.
But then they changed their mind, later on, so that was tough on her. So she went and lived
with my brother. And um, she was having a hard time I think, you know, college is different
than high school…it was tough because she didn’t speak any English and so I felt sorry for
her and um for me I, I liked the school, I did really well.
AK: Which college did you go to? You said you went to a community college…
BP: VGCC. Vance Granville Community College. And the people there were extremely nice.
In fact, one of the English teachers there is the one that told me: “You should write a book.”
She’s the one who encouraged me to write the book.
AK: The book that you wrote, The Orphans at War. And so, you spent two years there and
you couldn’t work during that time.
BP: No, but I stayed with that old lady.
AK: So during those two years you were staying and that’s how you were able to support
yourself. But in retrospect, I guess, they were hard times in terms of making ends meet?
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BP: Yea, I cleaned houses sometimes. I cleaned a huge house for 25 dollars. Or, you know,
that kind of stuff, one lady asked me to cater, help her cater. She does parties and stuff like
that, you know…so…whatever jobs people know about would help me out.
AK: And how did you, as your English, I suppose improved, aside from the language barrier,
culturally, did you feel like this is a place you could easily fit in to?
BP: No, it was hard. I think that was the hardest part. Even to this day, and you probably
understand that more than other people, you almost feel like you don’t belong there in
Lebanon, you don’t belong here, you never…you’re in a netherworld or whatever. It seems
like you don’t…even at the time I felt maybe I could get used to life here, which I did, but
even to this day you feel like you’re not 100% American, you’re not 100% Lebanese. If we
go there because we like it there, but then you find things that are so irritating and you
know…chaos and driving and all these little things…or law…nobody follows the law you
kind of don’t fit there and we’re here now, so…
AK: So you finished college and I’m trying to figure out the timeline. You came here in ‘85,
the college, you finished in 1987 or ‘88?
BP: ‘88.
AK: So in 1988 you had your associates degree, was that in any particular field or?
BP: In computers, computer programming. At the time it was like the cobalt, you remember
the cobalt. It was so old fashioned. You had to start the computer with a disk…you know a
big disk and uh then I went to NC State after that…
AK: And that’s when you were sort of adopted by this family that has two kids going to NC
State.
BP: Yes.
AK: Do you stay in touch with them?
BP: Yea…my kids call them Jiddy and Granddaddy…that’s good enough, we don’t have any
grandparents from my side.
AK: so, did you live with them at the same time you were going to school at NC State or…?
BP: No, they paid for my stay at Alexander.
AK: Alexander Hall?
BP: Alexander Hall, yea.
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AK: And how was that experience, I mean, that must have been the first time you had lived
on your own to an extent, with people your age?
BP: Yea, it was nice, I mean I studied all the time because, you know, English didn’t come
easy it was hard. All the people would go party and do their own little thing and I’m sitting
there studying the whole time because you know I felt bad that their paying for this, so I
didn’t want to fail or whatever.
AK: And you…when you were at NC State you changed your major from computer science
to business…
BP: Business management…I think that’s what they called it at the time.
AK: And this was 1990 that you finished your degree, your bachelors, or 1991?
BP: 1990
[ Interruption: Other: Could we pause for a second to see what is happening outside?]
AK: Where you able to work at all while you were going to school at NC State?
BP: No, I mean every…I was one of those people who follow the laws, I didn’t want to break
any laws but now I know that you can actually work in your field, but didn’t know that at the
time and I didn’t want to risk being deported or loosing my visa.
AK: Did you stay in touch at all with family in Lebanon while you were at NC State?
BP: No. Well with my sisters I did, you know we’d call them whenever I had money or
whatever, I would call them but it was so expensive to call, and there were no connections,
the lines were always bad. But I didn’t call my aunts or uncle or anything like that. But
before in 1993, the uncle that we did like…the uncle that took us over there…remember
there was the massacre of Ma’asser el Chouf? He died in that so he and his howl family was
killed there, except one.
AK: Did you go back for the funeral or you couldn’t?
BP: No, no I couldn’t. We heard it on the radio when I was there in Lebanon before we left. I
was just listening…oh that was my uncle, they were naming all who died and he was one of
them and it was just sad. We could never…go back.
AK: So when you came here, did you maintain any connections to Lebanon at all or…
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BP: Just our friends from the village who I always loved…either wrote or called…we keep in
touch now more than we do family, really.
AK: So the orphanage really becomes your family, then
BP: Yea yea, we have tons of friends when we go overseas we always see them, some of
them ended up in France some of them ended up in Australia or…
AK: So quite a few left, actually?
BP: Yea yea, most of them left.
AK: Most of them left Lebanon…and so did you keep in touch with the language at all, the
Arabic language, when you came here…newspapers, radio…?
BP: No, in the ten years...after ten years being here then we were able to go back, and I
couldn’t speak Arabic before that because everybody I knew was American and I never used
Arabic on the phone or anything like that, so I would write in French to my friends so when I
went back it came back right away. I was just like I’d never left. But it was weird all
these…you know the idioms or whatever…(Arabic)…I thought I’d forgotten all these
things…
AK: So how was it going back, so you would have gone back in uh…1995, no, or later?
BP: Yea, ‘95 I think. So it was nice, I went with my sister, my younger sister and we went
and saw my other sister but it was really hard because you feel like half your family is there,
we’re very close, so two of my oldest sister…the number 5 and number 4 were still there,
they got married and had family so we really miss them because they kind of took care of us
ever since my parents died and they would tend to us, bathe us, and um…really care of us all
the time, protect us, yell at us, help us study, so we really miss them because we couldn’t call
them, it was nice to go back and see them, I really liked that.
AK: So, you graduate in 1990, so what’d you do after that?
BP: Well, I met my husband the very first week at NC State. He was coming to do his PhD at
NC State, so we met there and he was drinking coffee and I was drinking coffee we kind of
introduced each other and that was it.
AK: And so you were married right after?
BP: No no, I stayed and finished school…I didn’t want to get married before school was
finished and then you know my…I graduated in 1990, was when I graduated. So I told him,
“Listen if you don’t marry me I’m out of here, I’m leaving.” That’s really how it was…you
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know, I didn’t want pressure but I was like “listen I have about two weeks and then I’m
leaving, so…”
AK: Where is he from, originally, your husband?
BP: Florida.
AK: So were you married here in North Carolina?
BP: Yea yea, in North Carolina. Actually it was in Sanford because his sister lived in Sanford
and the priest kept on messing up my name…it was the worst wedding I think.
AK: So you had intended to stay here, you really wanted to stay here.
BP: Yea I didn’t want him to feel like he was …I knew I wouldn’t go back to France or I’ll
find a way, I would have found a way to not go back to…it was really bad still…it was bad
‘till 1996.
AK: And, did you start working after you graduated?
BP: Yea, I actually supported him. I found a job in Sanford, so he kept going to school and I
supported him while working.
AK: What kind of work did you do?
BP: I was doing human resources for a mid-sized company. First at human resources then I
helped out in the controller doing more accounting stuff so it was kind of interesting, it was
challenging. Then in 1996 he graduated, so we moved back up to Cary, which is where he
was going to find work and I kept on commuting to Sanford and then I got my firstborn in
1996 so I kind of didn’t want to drive back and forth so then I stayed home with the kids.
AK: In this period of time as you sort of moved here, and then you went to school and you
worked, did you develop a sense of community within the Lebanese community here? Were
you aware that there was a Lebanese community or you really were not necessarily that
integrated into it?
BP: Well in school we did a lot of stuff I met [Unintelligible] a lot of Lebanese students it
was fun to hang out with them but, you know, eventually you get busy in life and you don’t
attend all the TLAs and all the Maronite Church stuff, so…
AK: Did you attend church here?
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BP: Yea yea, when the Maronite church started here we…you know I helped out, I used to
go sing, I can’t really sing but I helped them sing and go to the meetings and take notes and
do all that stuff. But I got too busy….
AK: This was in the early ‘90s?
BP: I want to say…I don’t remember, its got to be ’98, I bet it’s been that long, cause it was
the very beginning of…the priest would come from Fayetteville to do the church here, so we
would gather everybody, but it just gets to be with three kids, it got to be too much, with
three boys that don’t sit still in church or anywhere, so…
AK: And the, outside the church, the Maronite church, where there any other civil or you
know religious organizations or religious organizations that you became involved with that
was part of the Lebanese community?
BP: I, you know, I did the TLA. That’s it really. The TLA and I met many Lebanese but like
1 on 1 basically. I knew people you click with, and I would kind of hang out with them, but
not much really.
AK: So how would you characterize…if you were to think about the community here and the
culture of the community here…because obviously there are various people coming from
Lebanon at various times but ultimately they end up here in North Carolina. How do you
characterize how this sort of community…the sort of culture it develops?
BP: Well its nice to have that, its nice, but even most everybody knows that they cannot
bring in the baggage of their religion and conflict from there because they always know
“they’re doing this…there’s Druze here and Christian” they kind of clique together and
they’re kind of bringing the baggage from Lebanon, that’s why I kind of don’t mingle that
much with them, because it was painful there, I don’t want to have to deal with it here but its
nice that they have that, I just wish they would keep the religion out of the TLA or the
organizations that are meant to bring people together and celebrate the Lebanese culture.
AK: So you do feel like that there are these divisions or fissures within the community…
BP: I think so.
AK: …that makes matter of what was in Lebanon?
BP: For me, for example, because of the massacre, maybe I’m guilty of that because the
massacre of my uncle, I can’t really, I find it hard to be around Druze or you know, so, I’m
just as guilty, probably. So I don’t really, I don’t say anything about it because I don’t like to
talk about religion, but its hard to be around it, because your family was hurt by it, you’re
still paying the price of things that happened years ago.
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AK: So do you feel like people, when there are gatherings, people are really careful not to
touch the issue of politics because it still remains raw?
BP: I am, I don’t know I think they’re still talk about…I think they’re more careful here in
the US but they still kind of you…you’re this or you’re that. I wish they would represent, you
know, Lebanon more positive and…they’re all very friendly but just kind of leave religion
out all together, I think that’s probably the best solution.
AK: How about since September 11, obviously, there has been a tectonic shift in the way
Americans see the Middle East, and Lebanon is obviously part of the Middle East. How…has
that impacted you at all personally, in terms of the was people see you…have you
encountered anything pertaining to that or have you had to adjust how you identify yourself
so that you are distant yourself from those who perpetrated 9/11?
BP: I work at um…the YMCA for fun…it’s really not work, its just working out with other
people. I teach exercise there. and the people there, of course, are so nice, an they never
really showed any kind of…I’m the only Lebanese person there and they never showed any
kind of umm prejudice or bias or anything like that. For me, I feel bad for the Lebanese cause
I can see it, for example, in the visas and how tough it is for my sisters to come visit…that
kind of stuff. Or my nephew…they make it so much stricter for them to come here. That’s
more of the effect of what umm…that’s the worst part of it cause for us personally anybody
really…they know us, they know we have nothing to do with it. Most people, you know,
don’t bother you. Of course you know back when September 11 happened this guy…the
security guard at Target would always stop me…right after September 11, it’s the same
security guard every time. It’s like, finally I got really angry , I called the manager and said
“If I get randomly selected one more time…!” I don’t know what he was thinking…that’d
he’d catch me buying…I don’t know what it was. Anyway, that’s the worst part but in terms
of everyday. Did you…?
AK: Yea, I had some issues but uh…
BP: Yea, on a plane, I am sure we were randomly selected all the time…
AK: I had my cushion checked several times, but I look a little bit more threatening than you
Bearta.
[Laughter]
AK: But uh…I am just curious because… this is another touchy subject that I suppose a lot
of Lebanese community may or may not like to deal with very much…but the whole notion
over whether we are Arab or not, and there is this whole argument that goes on about it. And
I’m just curious as to how you sort of situate yourself when you identify yourself. Do you see
yourself as part of the larger Arab world or do you see your experience as Lebanese as quite
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different than anything around? Or is it something that you don’t even think about that
much?
BP: Well I think yea, because really if you are not from there, you don’t not understand the
difference. But if you are, if you compare us, for example, the Lebanese who are more
towards the, you know…all the education was French. Most of the math was in French, most
of the…all of the math was in French. Science was in French. Everything was French,
French, French. We were always exposed to…you know even as sheltered as a life that we
had we were exposed to international things and taught to be educated, independent,
um…you know…find something and go after it. Not just get married and have seven
children or get married and have…stay home and….so that part we’re really different, I
think. But I’m sure different cultures…we’re making a huge generalization but, for example,
if you compare us to Saudi Arabia, we are so different and if they’re really Arabs, I mean
really they are…like Egypt and all those places, they’re really traditional…I think the Arabs
are more traditional and uh…you know, Lebanon is more…educate yourself, go be
independent, don’t just get married you know “Go see the world” kind of attitude.
AK: So you felt that that was part of the ethos of growing up, part of the culture of growing
up, this idea of being entrepreneurial…just go out and…
BP: Yea yea, we were always like that. My sister always, she said don’t ever marry
somebody before you have a degree because what if…even if he’s rich, the what are you
going do if he looses his money? You need to be able to be independent. She’s the one now,
you know, who manages a firm of the export-import company that I was telling you about.
So it was a good influence I think to have all the…always remember seeing all these French
people come through the orphanage and they would…Germans…from every country there
would come visitors so we would see, even though we didn’t get out very much, we would
see international people coming through all the time, so we kind of had an idea, almost like a
window to the world…and really that there were better days or better opportunities out there.
AK: and um, so did you feel like then that the languages that you acquired like French and
then of course the type of exposure to film and people coming that maybe always oriented
you towards the outside…
BP: Yea, yea
AK: so you were not necessarily that afraid of the outside world, you saw it as an
opportunity.
BP: Yea, exactly.
AK: Let’s talk a little bit about your book. Because I know you just wrote this book that has
been getting quite a bit of coverage. It’s called Orphans at War, right? Can you tell me a
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little bit about how you came to decide that you wanted to write this book, when you decided
that and what you thought you would accomplish by writing this book?
BP: Well, like I said, the teacher in Henderson, or the college told me, she said…the English
teacher said…that this story would make a great story if you went on to write it. Well my
least favorite subject was writing English and reading English, so I knew that was not
possible. It was hard, I hated reading…the English part. I loved reading, for example, French
books, I just didn’t like reading the English part… old English like thou and art and all
Macbeth stuff. So, um, I went ahead and filed that in the back of my mind somewhere. And
when my firstborn, when I stayed home with Timmy, I decided you know, we were left with
zero pictures, I think we have one picture of our family, we don’t know what happened, we
don’t know, you know, what was our story. So I just started kind of writing and outline of
what I remember, because I didn’t want to loose those memories. And so I kept on improving
it and improving it every time and one day I ran into a real author and he said “Why don’t
you write this book?” So I showed him what I had and he helped me kind of fine tune it and
write it and really the idea behind it is hopefully to get people to not look at themselves as
victims, whatever the circumstance is, and just kind of…even though you seem that there
was no way out…you can always find a way out, and not give up and um, you know, just
don’t look at yourself and feel sorry for yourself, people are people…everybody has a story
everybody has bad things that happen to them. Just instead try to inspire other people,
whether it’s just smile or whether its your attitude or representing your own country…and
that’s probably the biggest thing is like when we first came the very first week somebody
called us terrorists…like they were bombing…when they bombed the embassy. So I’m
thinking to myself, I’m eighteen years old, I’ve never done anything bad and he’s calling me
a terrorist…I felt pretty bad about that so I kept on thinking…whatever I’m going to do, I am
going to represent my country well because if you always…you meet somebody and they
go….if you meet an American for example, they say “I know a Lebanese lady she was so
mean!” I always hated to hear that, that the Lebanese were bad. I felt like a small step we
could help with the reputation. You know, follow the rules, respect the country and represent
our country.
AK: And when you…when did you publish the book? What year?
BP: A year and a half ago I think…two years ago.
AK: So what…you’ve been doing some readings I think at Quail Ridge and a couple
somewhere else…
BP: Barnes and Noble and I did several other paces in the area and uh…
AK: And what was the reaction to the book?
BP: They were all so sweet. I mean everybody is so nice and supportive and I would say our
story is almost like the Lebanese [unintelligible] stories. I don’t know if you’ve read them,
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the three orphans. You guys read those? Cause its one bad thing after another…from
relatives to. …but theirs is fiction, ours is real. And um, you know, you cannot…you know,
stronger in the circumstance, hopefully you inspire others to do good and all the money that
goes from the money hopefully goes to the SOS or UNICEF. And I feel really strongly
because when we were in orphanage and didn’t have water or whatever, UNICEF was there.
So it was nice to give back to them.
AK: Did you have any reaction from the Lebanese community in North Carolina? Has
anybody sort of been responding to the book in one way or another?
BP: No. They Neomonde uh…Mounir… was really sweet. He said “You know we read your
article in the newspaper…” you probably saw it when I got the Presidential award this year
for UNICEF stuff, I think I sent you a copy. He said you know, “you made us proud” and
stuff like that, so that was nice. But I really don’t see many…of course my friends who are
Lebanese were like “ahh thank you for doing that” and stuff like that.
AK: So there was more or less…
BP: My friends, yes, but not the TLA.
AK: So you got involved with UNICEF before or after the book?
BP: Before. I was always a huge supporter of ….I just love their cause. Because they don’t
discriminate in terms of religion. They help everybody…not just because you’re a Christian
or because you’re a Muslim, they help everybody. And um…so we would organize these
parties, we’d do it in the Triangle, we’d organize dance parties. International dance parties,
and all the money that comes from them … the dance parties goes to UNICEF. And that’s
how…we’ve been doing it for about two years…and that’s how we um, sorry, so that’s how
they nominated me and UNICEF nominated me and my aunt got it as well, it was a nice
surprise.
AK: That’s wonderful. Uh…do you have future plans with UNICEF, are you looking to
expand?
BP: O I’d love to…yeah, I’d love to do more…yea.
AK: So the book then, whatever proceeds you get from the book is going directly back to the
SOS village?
BP: SOS or UNICEF. Depending on who is easier online, sometimes when you pay with the
VISA for the SOS sometimes it messes up or something whatever and I just send it to
UNICEF.
AK: Do you stay in touch with the administration of SOS village or…?
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BP: Yea, well on Facebook, of course Facebook is connecting people from Australia, from
Egypt from all these places, it was nice.
AK: Can we take a few minutes break?
BP: Sure.
FINISHED FIRST TAPE [Whole Tape—50 mins.]
BEGINNING SECOND TAPE [Partial Tape—10 mins.]
AK: In terms of, you know, raising your own children, in terms of, you know here in the
United States, uhh. Do you hope that they make some connection to Lebanon or do you help
them with that or…what kind of things do you do to help them maintain it if that’s the case?
BP: I’d love for them to keep…because every country has good things and bad things, just
like this country and every other country it’s nice to bring the good stuff from Lebanon.
There’s so many…the relationship with the family is so important, always respect the older
people in the room, umm, you know, not waste, ummm…you know, be respectful of the
food, being respectful of what you have basically, so that’s nice. I’d like for them to learn
that, umm. What I do is probably send to my sister’s to learn all that, cause she’s like “O no!”
she’s very traditional and I mean I do that sometime too, but its good to have the family, you
know, reinforce it, and um, my brother, you know, helped teach them to, uhh, umm…nothing
wrong with kissing on the cheek as opposed to just giving a hug, or. Those are little things,
but I hope they keep some of the good stuff that comes form Lebanon.
AK: Do you get together with your family? Is there like a family reunion regularly, or…?
BP: Not very regularly, you know, we just go for lunch…not on a regular basis or anything
like that.
AK: But you stay in touch with the family?
BP: Yea, yea I talk to my sister just about everyday…both sisters and one in Lebanon I call
once every week or email everyday…and my brother just about once a week, so we stay in
touch.
AK: Uh. Do you think you would every move to Lebanon. Back to Lebanon?
BP: My husband wouldn’t find work there. I don’t think they need psychologists in Lebanon!
[Laughs]
AK: I think they need a lot of psychologists in Lebanon [Laughing]
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BP: He does industrial…organizational psychology so, let’s say for example, if he’s taking a
survey of whether employees are happy or not, let’s say, for example, and in Lebanon they
don’t care whether or not you’re happy or not…you’re happy to have a job and that’s it!
[Laughing]
AK: [Laughing]
BP: So, they don’t care about, you know, employee performance or any of that stuff…so, I
think so anyway…
AK: Uh. So, do you feel like in terms of North Carolina, coming to North Carolina, because
you came here and you’ve lived here…
BP: O I stayed here, yea…
AK:… you’ve been here for quite a long time. If somebody was to say, well sort of, what did
you add to this state, what did you contribute to North Carolina, in your mind? And it doesn’t
have to be anything big, I mean I’m not asking like “I invented something…” or
BP: Yea
AK:…but in your mind, when you feel like you’re coming here, how do you feel that you
have enriched this place, as a person coming from Lebanon?
BP: I think the one…the biggest thing is really representing your country well. Because
Lebanon has a reputation, you know, every time you turn around someone is sneaking drugs
across the border or…not the border…through the immigration or some sort of terrorist
or…so for me I know I’ve done my share in terms of representing the country well…our
country, Lebanon, but also I on a different scale, for example, when I teach…when I teach
uhh, fitness, you know its kind of nice to uhh say “Oh this is the Lebanese girl who
everybody likes and, you know, she smiles all the time and she’s happy all the time” so I feel
like I effect them in a good positive way, as well, not just to loose weight, but just being a
better person all together. So that’s the nice part of it and I work with hundreds and hundreds
of members at the Y, the Cary Y, so hopefully, I’m hoping I made some impact that way.
AK: Uhh…
BP: Plus I pay my taxes, so that’s good!
AK: Sorry?
BP: I pay my taxes, so that’s good!
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AK: [Laughs] Taxes are always good! Do you think that you will write a full-out book to The
Orphans at War?
BP: Like, uh…
AK: You know…
BP: I don’t think so, cause it was really painful to write it um, and um, maybe looking back
now I wish I’d done something different but you live and learn and umm, its not a made up
story, so I can’t make up another one, you know…this is truly what happened and, you
know…if I was going to write anything, I think I’d write a comedy, like looking at funny
things that happen everyday there are so many friends that are funny or the people that I deal
with or international people that I know who kind of felt the same way as I do, you almost
don’t fit here very well…and I almost contemplate maybe doing some sort of a funny book
on that…cause their views are so different and funny, and you know their mannerisms, their
ideas, their adjustments…things like that.
AK: I want to take you back a little but in time because I sort of want to explore something
else that we passed over, that I want to explore in greater depth because its something at least
for me, it kind of touched me, some of the things. Because on one hand, here you are you are
coming with your sister to a place sight unseen. You had an image of it through television,
Dallas and Dynasty, and then you arrive here and its quite different from Dallas or Dynasty,
so I would like to explore, if you could push it a little further, I know its probably hard,
this…these early years, you know, because these were obviously very important years in
your lives when you first…
BP: Yea. I think I told you that like the first two years were really tough, and if you asked
any, in my experience, if you ask anybody who comes here first year of getting to the US is
probably the toughest and everybody goes “ahhh I’m coming back…I’m leaving that’s it”
you know, and they find it hard because in your mind you’re coming to a country you’re
coming to a country who’s more cosmopolitan more you know, you can walk everywhere or
there’s transportation but really, here in North Carolina, if you don’t have a car and if you
don’t know where to go for things, you know, or shop, or…you really can get lost. The roads
are massive, the distances…so far from everywhere. So that was hard I think. But not only
that, then you don’t find that you are able to pick up the phone and call your best friend if
you’re bothered about something, you can’t joke about it with anybody because your
language is different, you know, and you know in the south, where I was, you know
everybody was Christian and couldn’t say bad words, and so I had to…really I just…not that
I cursed too much, but I was very careful in what to say, not to offend people. Um, so that
part was hard. So you have the school. That was tough; you’re on your own. Your youngest
sister who is 16…I felt bad for her, and you know I’m having a hard time, my brother is
having a hard time, cause you know he had just gotten here, so…, you know, and my two
other sisters are at…in the middle of the war, we don’t whether they’re alive or
dead…they’re in, you know, it was really…the lines we so bad at the time, so you have it bad
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from every angle. At least when you’re in Lebanon you’re in your own country, you know
how to go, you know how the system works, you know where to go for a car…for
transportation or for me, I finally ended up getting to go to school and ended up getting a
bike...what did I do? O I tutored math…I tutored a kid in math and his mom paid me by bike,
you know, with a bike…and so I was happy to be able to go to a store…on bike…and then I
paid this lady that went with me to college I would pay her for gas too, so, but if you don’t
have that, you really don’t have a bus to go…or a train …so that was hard, that was tough.
AK: And yet you’ve succeeded, I mean clearly you’re kind of a success story in many
ways…
BP: I hope so
AK. Well, I mean, you come from incredibly difficult situation: orphan and in the midst of a
civil war, and yet you have made a great life for yourself in North Carolina, thanks in part to,
obviously, this place has given you opportunities, but so if one is to look at your life as this
story, this amazing story, what would you sort of….how….what would you say is the thing
that ultimately kept you going and gave you your drive which obviously you have?
BP: God. That’s a good question. I think when you’re in a desperate situation, you can either
give up or try whatever works. And I think for me, it just worked…you know, it was hard
and you just kind of go “What is the alternative, really?” Going back to Lebanon? Or, you
know, feeling sorry for yourself? Or, you know, going out, let’s say for example, you know, I
see people going out and saying “Oh let’s go have fun and forget about…” I never did that
because I didn’t get the chance to do that, I just said…I kept focusing on finishing what I
wanted...came here to do, which was to get a degree and study and then, if that was working
out, I was ok with everything else. It was…it wasn’t pretty, but you know, hopefully we will
provide for our kids a little bit better, you know; to give moral support, love, you know, all
that stuff.
AK: So, as an immigrant, as an immigrant to this country then, you came with this sort of
purpose that you had to make it work…
BP: Yea.
AK: And you only have so much
BP: You really can’t. What’s your alternative, going back to Lebanon? You know…
AK: Right.
BP: So you kind of…whatever it takes. As long as it’s legal and moral! [Laughs]
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AK: Ok, well, I think we’ll stop it at that. We’ll probably have to, I mean later on, I might
come up…
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bearta Al-Chacar Powell Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
<h4>Biographical/Historical Note</h4>
<p>Bearta Al-Chacar Powell was born in Ma’asser El Chouf, Lebanon to Ramiz Al-Shakar and Isabelle Maalouf, the fourth of their five children. When Bearta was five years old, both of her parents passed away and an uncle brought the children to the Children’s Village S.O.S. orphanage in Bikfaya, Lebanon. The siblings lived at the orphanage from 1971 until 1985. During this period, many members of Bearta's extended family died in the Lebanese Civil War. When Bearta turned 18, one of her older brothers, who had married a missionary and immigrated to the United States, helped her and their youngest sister, Nina, immigrate to Henderson, North Carolina.</p>
<p>Bearta attended Vance Granville Community College and then North Carolina State University, where she studied Business Management. Bearta married in 1990 and supported her husband while he completed his doctorate. In 1996, the couple began a family, and Bearta left work to raise her children. She has since become an author, and has produced two books: a memoir about her childhood, <em>The Orphans of War</em>, and <em>Authentic Lebanese Cuisine: From Our Homes to Yours</em>.</p>
<h4>Scope/Content Note</h4>
<p>This collection contains the transcript of an oral history of Bearta Al-Chacar Powell conducted by Dr. Akram Khater as well as photographs from Bearta's childhood in Lebanon.</p>
Subject
The topic of the resource
Photographs
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bearta Al-Chacar Powell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Moise A. Khayrallah Center for Lebanese Diaspora Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1971-2003, undated
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
The donor retains full ownership of any copyright and rights currently controlled. Nonexclusive right to authorize uses of these materials for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes are granted to Khayrallah Center pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. Usage of the materials for these purposes must be fully credited with the source. The user assumes full responsibility for any use of the materials.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Processed by Khayrallah Center staff. Collection Guide content contributed by Claire A. Kempa and updated by Allison Hall, 2023 November.
Language
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English
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
KC 0038
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
This digital material is provided here for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bearta Powell Interview Transcript
Description
An account of the resource
Transcription of interview of Bearta Powell by Akram Khater. 50/10 minutes (see PDF).
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bearta Powell
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Bearta Al-Chacar Powell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Moise A. Khayrallah Center for Lebanese Diaspora Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Dr. Akram Khater
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kc0038_006
1970s
1990s
2000s
9/11
Immigration
Interviews
Lebanese Civil War
Lebanon
North Carolina
-
https://lebanesestudies.omeka.chass.ncsu.edu/files/original/9bc94967087c8d7703c6d8545844638a.pdf
639341c076956f41654a4e8736fc34b8
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Text
1
Interview no. 001
Restrictions
Project
The Lebanese in North Carolina Project
Date
Interviewee
Saleeby, Callie
Occupation
DOB
Ethnicity
Lebanese
Interviewer
Khater, Akram.
Abstract
Transcript
Yes
Transcript
Access
Online.
Number of
Pages
21
Subject
Topical
North Carolina—Lebanese
Subject Name
Listening Copy
Audio Access
Listening Copy File
Type
Medium of Originial
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�2
Duration
Approx. 66 min.
Notes
Family history
Yes
Field Notes
Tape Log
Supplementary
Material
Citation
Interview with [Callie Saleeby] by [Akram Khater], [Interview
date][Interview number], the Lebanese in North Carolina Project
Collection in
Repository
Repository
Host
AK: …it was unusual for you to marry a non…basically somebody who is not
Lebanese/Syrian so I really would like to hear that story and to hear more about Eli, what he
was like and if he had relatives, so on and so forth. That’s the first part. The second part, I
want to hear the story of the book. How you put it together, and all these details that we’ve
been talking about. So well do the first part, we’ll take a break, have something to eat, and
we’ll do the second part. Is that ok?
CS: Anyway you want to do it.
AK: We’ll do it that way.
CS: You’re the manager…and the first part we’re going to start on now is talking about Eli?
AK: Yea, you meeting Eli…about him, how you met him, uhh and also you know, just the
early years, the things you remember and the church…that you talked about a little bit, the
church issues, all these issues, early years before he passed away. So that’s what I’d like to
talk about.
[almost inaudible interruption—correcting volume issues]
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�3
CS: Well, let me tell you what I got now to support this for you, I’ve got an article that was
written by me about the depression period, and how I lived through it. And I’ve, got…if you
remind me now, I’ll give you that to you….umm. then I’ve got um something telling about
the research I did on the early church history.
AK: Mhmm.
CS: I’ve got, umm, my story in there written out for you.
AK: Great.
CS: From the time I was born until now.
AK: OK.
CS: and I’ve got my story with Eli written…
AK: Alright.
CS: …and how he died. And my story was Leyton is written and how he died.
AK: Ok.
CS: And what we did through the years and how it affected Leonard’s life. And Leonard
always came first to me, I never…I raised a lot of, you know, I had to raise the children that
was left when my mother died when I was twelve. And I didn’t um, I had to stop school,
cause she had a baby just three weeks old. Now she’s uhh, got a family of her own. That’s
the only one that’s left of my brothers and sisters. There was seven of us. And that’s the only
one that left. Me and Mary. But Mary was three weeks old when mother died. And umm I
had a difficult time because we were told we were coming from school, five children coming
from school, riding the school bus in the country. And we’d get off the bus and walk a little
distance to our house. And umm…and my father met us and he said…I hate to give you
some bad news, but your mother’s dead. And uh, she’s…and…of course you know we went
running to the house and um, so um, so it was awful sad. It was sudden, she had cooked
dinner, even though the baby was just three weeks old. She was up and around and doing her
work…and she had cooked dinner, the little brother of two years old was sitting at the table
eating and he got a piece of pastry that wasn’t cut in two…and he was trying to do that, you
know, and eat it, and she was standing there laughing at him and turned around and fell dead.
So the old doctor came to our and he said “It must have been heart trouble. Must have been.”
But we don’t know what work it was related to. Anyway the next day…I didn’t do anything
much as a child, you know, we had wonderful experiences…lived in a neighborhood of just
families, we owned a lot of property…and um, had hundred acres of just cotton. And was
just lots of forrest land and other kinds of crops, you know. And uh, everybody that lived
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�4
near us was either an aunt or an uncle either from my mother’s side or my daddy’s side. My
mother was a Davis family and my father was a Ratliff family, you see….
[5 MINUTES]
…and um, so they owned about 14,000 acres up and down Rock Fish Creek, near the old
waterfront. And um, I don’t think…back then, you know, it was just streams, you would fish
and hunt and do that sort of thing. Anyway, the next day I had to stop school. My older sister,
it was her senior year and my daddy told em “we gotta let her go to school and finish…her
year through.” And so she went to school, and she finished. And when she graduated she got
married and moved away. The older brother, he went to the service cause there was no jobs
for anybody, and he’d go to service and he went into the service, so they were gone. I was the
only one left, I was third…to take care of it all. And so, I never, my mother had told me,
don’t play with scissors…don’t mess with a knife, you’ll cut yourself, well the next day I had
to slice the bacon. That’s how rude…abrupt it was…how sudden our childhood changed
completely and I had to become an adult at twelve years old. I had to…the old doctor came
and he said, uh, and he told us that he had to uhhh, teach us a lot of things, especially me, we
had a great big stove, cook stove, and big old iron kettle, and he showed me how to hold the
water and pick up the kettle so I wouldn’t scald myself. He said because you got learn how to
sterilize the bottles and how to make the formula and all that. And he said “But you can do it,
I’ll show you how” and uh, so he kept checking on me. And making the formula, you gotta
sterilize everything otherwise she’s gonna die…and you can’t let a fly or mosquito get on
her, cause she’ll die! He had to emphasize it, the importance of it all. And I said, “Just tell me
how in the world I’m gonna keep every fly and every mosquito off of her? Tell me how I’m
gonna do that.” He said “We’ll fix it.” So next day he came back with a mosquito net and we
put it over her crib. He said “now, when you carry her around, get you a pillow case, and you
carry her around in a pillow case…just stop it up here, you know.” And so umm, that’s what
I did.
AK: And, what year was that? What year was this going on?
CS: Um..that would have been, I was twelve and I was born 1920, so what would that be?
AK: 1932.
CS: That’s right. She died April…uh, May the second, 1932.
AK: So how was it that you go from taking care of your family like this, all on your own, to
working in the restaurant that you were talking about earlier?
CS: I wanted to tell you about that. That’s exactly what I got written for you. And uhh… I
went, and I always thought “What in the world can I do…I want a job or something.” And I
was told you had to wait till you were sixteen...you had to wait till you were sixteen. And
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�5
um, in the meantime, I, you know, I took care of them. And then I finally went to um, it was
uh, well I disagreed with [inaudible], they didn’t want me to do it…I went to stay with my
sister, she was married and uh that’s when I got the job, you know, in the restaurant, that’s
when I went to apply for Steve and got turned down and he sent the little Pep. That’s where I
was, the Little Pep restaurant, when I met Eli.
AK: And this was in Fayetteville?
CS: Uh huh. And so, uh, and he carried me home. He said “Kid you want to go to a movie
sometime?” And I said, “Yeah that’d be nice.” And then he had told me about his business he
used to have in Wilmington and you know…we’re getting into his life now. And we had the
business in Wilmington, he said, and um, and when his wife died he had a big home, a
beautiful home there, but he lost, you know he was depressed, he lost everything and he had
come back to stay with his brother…
[10 MINUTES]
…and they had a business in Fayetteville too, so they would work, you know, together, and
that’s where I met him. And um, anyway, um, one day he took me to Wilmington to take a
look around. He said “sometime I’ll take you to Wilmington if you want to go” He said
“better than that, maybe you’d like to go to the beach?” I said, “I’ve never seen the ocean. I’d
love to got there.” And so he took me, and um, and while I was there, or…meeting different
people, you know, and um,…to his relatives, he had all those, but you know we weren’t
thinking about getting married…nothing like that, but I was meeting people, and then I said,
well why don’t I just rent a room and get a restaurant job here in Wilmington? And that’s
what I did, in one of the finest restaurants and so I got a job there and another waitress and I
rented a house together, I mean a room together. That’s all we had, a room, and we’d ride the
bus backwards and forwards to our work, so we could do it there, we could make it. And so I
got…saved a little bit…saved my money that I made, I got lots of tips, I sent them home to
help my daddy with the other children. And during the depression it got real bad, you know,
so um…then it was a matter of survival. It was a matter of everybody surviving. And so we, I
got that whole story written up, I’m gonna give it to you, but um anyway we got through the
depression and everything.
AK: Now, how long did you work in Fayetteville before you got married?
CS: About a year.
AK: A year, and then you moved to Wilmington after Fayetteville…
CS: Yea because I had visited there, and I decided “well I can get a nice job there” and I
liked to live there, and I’m still not too far from home you know, and I could help…I could
make some more money and I could send it home and help the others. And I used to go down
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�6
during the depression, you know, and get clothes from a place where they had a community
sewing room for the children. I would take those home. And uh, they did them for needy
families, you know, and um, I helped them still with canning food. Go over to the cannery
and where they would can your food for you, and they would take a certain portion out, that’s
the way you paid for it. Or they would grind meal and flour for you, and uhh, you could uhh,
you know wheat…and you’d make a portion to them. Those are things we had. And the
schools then had the soup kitchens in them. You could have soup if you worked in the soup
room. So…
AK: So, where you courting, was Eli courting you while you were living in Wilmington?
CS: Um, he would come…cause he had relatives there. He would come and visit, but he’d go
back to Fayetteville, but pretty soon he moved to Wilmington. He said “You know I’m gonna
start my business here again.” And I mean I think I encouraged him, I think he uh…I don’t
think…didn’t see that he had any intentions at that time of getting married or anything like
that. It was just a matter of friendship and we just passed the time. And so I would go down
to the beach and um, the other young Saleeby boys would come you know, and they said,
“Here we are looking for a girl and Eli’s got…” he’s an old man you know, they thought…
“he’s got the best looking one here!” [Laughter] Anyway, it was quite funny, my life was
quite funny. And how to lived with it all and still be true and raised Leonard like he ought to
be raised. Leonard came along about a year after I was married. Anyway, we’ll…is that
enough of that?
AK: Well, let’s talk a little bit more about, because it is a bit unusual for, you know, a young
lady like yourself growing up in the south at that time period to marry someone who is a
foreigner, in essence….
CS: Well….the answer to that is, he wasn’t a person that aged….
[15 MINUTES]
…He wasn’t…he was a jolly person, a happy person, and he was a person who taught me a
lot of things…how to count money. He would say “Now hold this money…now you can
remember that you held that much money in your hand!” You know, he would do things like
that, and um, then he’d tell me “why don’t you start a business of your own?” and uh, then of
course I didn’t do it then, Leonard came along and I couldn’t start a business right then. But
um, later on I did, I started Merle Norman Cosmetic Studio. And it was the first one in North
Carolina, and you had…and I wrote to the company and I wanted to carry the product, I
wanted to sell the product. They said “You can’t sell our product unless you have a studio.”
And uh, well then you had to have money if you wanted to buy a studio, you had to have
money to pay rent and to buy dressing tables and display cases…you had to have money to
do that… you had to have a place for people to sit and a place to give demonstrations. Well, I
got all that, finally, God, I found I could do all that, but they said “Well, no, you got to go to
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�7
California to get the training.” I said, “I can’t go to California” and they said “the nearest
studio is Columbia, South Carolina.” I went there for my training and when I finished that I
started the studio. I rented a place, started, was very successful with it. And um, it didn’t start
immediately as successful, I was striving. And Eli, in the meantime, you know we were
married then, and Eli then was making a payments and everything and helping you with
everything and of course he…we took Leonard a lot of times with him, we got some help
along with the house, and um managed and um, and when he died suddenly, went down to
the market and fell down on the sidewalk, and…he’d come back off a trip from Florida and
he had, uh, came back with a little produce…he had a driver, and um, but he came back and
his legs were hurting him and then uh, um, you know, from that, that clot that was hurting
this legs, went immediately to his heart, lungs…and um, he died suddenly, he was going
down to the market in the morning and um, fell down on the sidewalk, and the people picked
him up and carried him immediately to the hospital, and they called me and said “You better
come to the hospital, I think your husband’s ill” and so, she didn’t tell me he was already
dead. So that’s…and then the next day, see, there I had a little boy, by myself, we were still
paying off the house, and I had a business that wasn’t supporting itself, yet. I had that. And,
you know, payments to make for that house and Leonard. How was I going to raise Leonard
and stay home and take care of him, and cook and do all those things and then go to…how
am I gonna do that? I tried everything, you know, nothing worked, didn’t get anything to
work. And one day we were…I was still keeping the studio going though, and so one day,
Eli…this was after Eli died now, after Eli had died, now, and Leyton came. I came home one
day from work, and Leyton was in the…my neighbor’s backyard fixing Leonard’s tricycle.
And I said “Who is that man?” and then I…then so, I met him, Leyton, and he said “Well I’m
visiting my cousin here, and she told me about Leonard’s tricycle and I’m fixing it.” And, uh,
he could fix all things. And so, uh, he fixed it. And then one day he said “You know, would
you like to go to a movie or something?” I said “Yea.” But anyway, it was pretty fast, we
dated about a year I reckon before marrying.
AK: Uh, let me take you a little bit back to the Saleeby family, that you married into. So Eli,
your husband, had a brother who worked in Fayetteville. But you also mentioned that there
were some Saleeby kids who were living in Wilmington?
[20 MINUTES]
CS: That’s right.
AK: So there was a big family all together there. When did they first come here? I mean,
when did Eli first come here and how did they get to be here?
CS: well I don’t know exactly when he came here, but uh, he was about sixteen I think when
he first came here. And, um, he had mother and a brother that came with him or pretty soon
came with him, and then he must have…he went back to Lebanon and um, married his
cousin and brought her here. And so, um, um, he did…he was born in Lebanon, he was
baptized in the Jordan River. And so I went to Israel and I was baptized in the Jordan River,
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�8
and I wanted to go over to Lebanon…you couldn’t go from Israel to Lebanon, and I didn’t
get a chance to ever go there, but anyway I know a lot of people over there and correspond
with them. I know a lot of people in New Zealand and I correspond with them. You know,
sometimes by email, sometimes on the phone and sometimes they just call me. And
then…it’s amazing how I’ve got two big families and all of them good. Now I
stayed…whenever I married a Saleeby family and uh...you know… I say I married the whole
family, because they came you know…they would come. And of course, I didn’t cook
Arabic food. I didn’t cook Far Eastern food. And um…but, uh, Eli was a wonderful cook. He
could cook all of those things…and one day I decided, “Well I’m gonna teach you some
manners” and uh… “dress the table up just how it ought to be and I’m gonna fix dinner.” So
I…his nephew had come over to eat, and well, it was true that the napkin was put in the right
place, the silverware in the right place, it was the right kind of china, and the tablecloth was
fine, but…the food was terrible. [Laughs]. And I said…”I won’t try that again.” Anyway,
you can see what it looks like. They finally found out they had to learn how to put napkin
place…in the right place and how to do this and that and the other. And I found out a whole
load about what good food is and how you cook it! And he told me “Look, kid, you don’t
know anything.” That’s what he’d tell me. “Kid! You don’t know anything!” You know,
he’d bring some sawdills or whatever…all that stuff, and I said “What in the world is that?”
and you know he …. “Well, you don’t know anything.” He says “one of these days you’re
gonna go to Lebanon…one of these days I’ll take you to learn something.” He was just
teasing me cause he knew I knew a lot. But he, but he was telling me “When it comes to
Lebanese food don’t talk about it, just eat it!” And so, I enjoyed it, he was a good cook and
her…so that’s the…and then anyway the neighbors and old families would come together
and during a storm they would usually come to our house.
AK: So these are the Saleeby families…they lived nearby and they would come and visit…
CS: In Wilmington, some of them, and the came all often, you know. Yea….there was one of
them I chose to be the Merle Norman woman of the year, you know, put her picture in a
frame and put it in my studio in the window, and she was glad of that. And from then on I
had a Merle Norman studio Girl of the Month or something like that, you know?
AK: Did they, obviously I mean, when you married Eli, you know, he was coming from a
community of Lebanese, did you feel welcome there, was it strange to be…and Anglo-Saxon
person marrying into a Lebanese family?
CS: Well I felt…my family felt very much that way.
AK: They did?
CS: Well any…well in my country, where I was, in the Sandhills, um…it was even strange to
talk with somebody from the north… “There’s an old Yankee,” you know? What in the
world are they saying and what in the world are you going to buy from them, you know? And
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�9
um…yea they were even that kind. And they were certainly um, well they were strict people,
and when I married Eli of course my brother got a acquainted with Eli too and he liked him
and they did a little bit of business together and um...
[25 MINUTES]
…that was the breaking point, and then one day um, you know, umm he met my family and
my home and everything and um…but he knew that I never had much experience with
anything, you know, and he taught me and he encouraged me and this is the reason I said,
you know, I had lost my mother so early and had lost my father almost because he got
depressed and you know, he could only do so much, he finally lost a lot of his land and that
depressed him too. So all of these are in the story I’m gonna give you. But anyway, getting
back, you want to talk about the Lebanese people. Well they were all old friends of me, and I
made…I was a member of their family. And then when Leonard came, he was a little baby
laying in his crib, they all came… “I want to see that little Saleeby!” and if he’d been red
haired I don’t know what they would have thought. But anyway, you can look at him and say
“He’s a Saleeby all right!”[Laughs] Anyway, they were straight people, but a little bit offish
too, you know, just “How’s this gonna work, you know? Why’d Eli marry that girl?” and uh,
so, they accepted me, made dresses for me, uh, would come and help me with anything, came
to work with me in the studio and so, I mean, I just had another family. And my father would
come and…he liked him…very much liked Eli, buy you know, it was something strange for
a Scotch-Irish to marry out of your race, you know, out of your class, too. Completely out.
Everything was different, but I found out he was just like the rest of us. I mean people are the
same, um… and I have uh…and I’ve met a lot of different kinds of people now. But, uh, I
was telling you about trying to get to Lebanon, being baptized in the Jordan River, and I
thought… “He used to tell me…” he’d see all the cosmetics and everything I’d buy and he’d
tease me, he said “Look, I don’t have to buy all that deodorant and perfume and everything, I
was baptized in the Jordan River and I won’t ever stink.” And so I thought about that when I
was in Israel, I was baptized there, and um…I then I went to Jesus’ tomb, and I did all those
things. I took a cruise on the Sea of Galilee and I went to the Dead Sea, you know, the lowest
place in the world, and uh, went in there and it’s true, you can’t…you can’t…you won’t
drown, and I can see why Peter might have walked on the water, you know, but um, I mean,
that’s just kid thinking. Um, anyway, I did do all those things and uh…I…that’s after
retirement you know, had time to do these things, went to Australia, took a long trip, tour of
31 days, big class…private everything…
AK: That sounds wonderful.
CS: All right, while I was teaching, too, while I was teaching I would save a little bit of
money, and I would buy a little bit of land, and when I was teaching…I never thought of
myself as a good teacher, but I always wondered well what…I loved my students, I always
thought of myself as more of a guidance teacher, a guidance person, but I’ve always
wondered what effect did I have…and recently I had two contacts…
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�10
[Interruption- Phone Rings]
AK: We just need to wait till…
AK: OK, go ahead!
CS: OK. I don’t know where we were, where were we?
AK: Uh, you were talking about these student who came and uh…
CS: Oh yes, these two students…I saw one student not too long ago, went to a nightclub, was
there you know, just eating dinner, and this girl came down and I thought “I know that girl” I
said “My goodness…” and I remembered that she was one of my students. And so
waited…cause she had her guest too, you know…
[30 MINUTES]
…so she went to the restroom and I decided I’d go and talk to her, so I went to the restroom
and I said “I know, I know you.” And she said “Yea I know you, you’re Mrs. Stanley.” And I
said “Yea” and I said “while we’re here it’s wonderful to see you, but while you’re here, will
you tell me if you remember anything that I taught you…do you remember anything that you
want to tell me?” She said, “Yea, you had my teeth fixed.” She had ugly teeth, she was a
pretty girl but had real ugly teeth and I told her, “You need to have your teeth fixed because
you’ll have a hard time holding a job until you do that.” And um, she said, “I can’t, my
father and mother can’t afford it and I can’t afford it and they don’t want me to do it.” And I
said, “You ask them if we can do it.” And she said “Sure, if you want to do it.” So I took her
down to this dentist, this is my student now, I took her down to the dentists, to one dentist I
knew, and I sad “Look, this girl needs some help. Can we work something out? I’ll get her a
job and she can pay some…you know…a little bit along as she can.” He said “That’ll be fine,
I’ll be glad to do it.” Beautiful job he did. Then she had beautiful teeth. And that’s what she
remembered. And see I got her a job, and it taught her to be responsible, and it also taught
her to make the payments of everything.
AK: That’s great.
CS: And then, I just got a letter from another girl. I said “I remember that girl, I remember
that name.” It was an email that came, she said “I want to know if you’re the Callie Stanley
that used to teach in Gastonia?” and then I wrote back, “Yea…this is me.” And so she sent
me some emails backward and forward, I still correspond with her. And um, she said, um,
“You’ll never know how much you helped me.” And I never asked for this. She said, “You
know, I’ve…every year when I have my students…” she’s a teacher… “every year when I
have my students, I tell them to write to some teacher and let somebody that’s teaching them
Department
of
History
|
NCSU,
Box
8108
|
Raleigh,
NC
27695
USA
919.513.2218
�11
now that they appreciate what they are doing.” And she said, “When I would do that I would
think about you and I’ve tried to find you, I’ve checked Gastonia and nobody knows where
you went. I checked in Raleigh, where I finally found you…well nobody knows you’re
there.” And she happened to see the website, the Saleeby website, and remembered
Leonard’s name and so she went on there and found me, and uh, cause my address is up there
too.
AK: That’s great.
CS: And she contacted me, and she said “You know, you don’t know how you helped this
poor girl.” She said “When I was there, I was having all kind of a hard time, and my mother
and father couldn’t afford to do things, and you were telling me how you had trees growing
everyday that tree would get bigger on that land, and while you were teaching, it was still
making money.” And she told me things I told her, she said “I remembered all that, and she
said I remember hanging out at your house all the time, cause she felt secure.”
AK: That’s wonderful. Let me, perhaps, shift a little bit. I want to ask you something about
the church that Eli went to and then…we’ll stop with that and then we’ll take up with the
second part, which is the book you wrote. So, when Eli was here in Wilmington, when he
was still alive, did you attend the Greek Orthodox Church in Wilmington, or…?
CS: Just one or two times, not much, because he was Methodist.
AK: He was.
CS: He just really wanted to have him baptized there, he wanted…we stayed in touch with a
minister for awhile, and when Eli died, they would call and check and see if I was doing all
right, and so uh…and his church, where he and his earlier wife had gone…that church was
not very far from us. But he joined that…and I said “Well, I’m Baptist…” so I joined… I was
a member of the Temple Baptist Church and uhh…so I uhh…
AK: So why did he become a Methodist? I mean, what lead him to become a Methodist when
he was born and raised Greek Orthodox?
CS: I don’t…well because again, because there was no Greek Orthodox Church when they
came here.
[35 MINUTES]
AK: I see.
CS: And everyone…that’s what people did. They joined something else, whatever was there
and a place that was convenient for them to go. And so he…his wife joined that, they were
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married in the First Methodist Church in Fayetteville, and he and his wife...and that day…I
heard about that, the day the got married, they um, everybody in Wilmington, I mean
Fayetteville, anybody who passed by their store, at that time they had the Palace of Sweets,
they got ice cream, and everything was free, they set it out on the sidewalk. Everything was
free that day, when they got married. So…
AK: So he started out with this store in Fayetteville but you said he also worked in groceries,
so he would go to Florida, pick up groceries, and bring them back up here?
CS: Well, he would bring produce…
AK: Produce.
CS: …mainly, it was still…he went…after he went from the Palace of Sweets, and they’d
sold that place, that was near the old markethouse downtown, and that place is still there. I
mean the place is still there, but its something else now, but it was the Palace of Sweets then
and when they built the warehouse, that was over near the railroad at um, in Fayetteville, and
that was a big place, and they had a place outside where they could…show food you know,
produce, different kinds. And a day didn’t go buy when they didn’t fill an order for
uh…that’s how that was.
AK: How many siblings did he have? Did he have only one brother or did he have more than
one brother, Eli?
CS: He just had one brother there…
AK: One brother…
CS:…and his mother came with him, his father had died and was buried in Lebanon. And so
they came here and they still own, they still owned property at that time in Lebanon and they
stayed there…and that’s in the book, you’ll find it, pictures of the church they went to and
pictures of uh…and that history…the church history that I had done on everybody is in there.
Umm. Well, it’s just a wonderful thing to have two great big families. And since I’ve been
married, I’m real close to then, they come all the time to see me and my little niece, little
Saleeby niece went to uh…went…worked in Merle Norman studio for me for awhile. That’s
her first job and uh, and now she’s eighty years old herself. And uh, but she’s here. She still
comes to see me and we stay very close…and Leyton loves the Saleeby family…they accept
him right off, I thought I was gonna have problems…haven’t had any problems, so and you
know what? I got Saleeby friends everywhere…and these people I feel like they’re my
brothers and sisters almost. And um, the Stanley family is the same way…and the Stanley
family got acquainted with them and the two families get along fine! And so I wrote the long
big Saleeby book, I wrote the Ratley book , I wrote the Davis book, and um, that’s three.
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Um…I’ve just been writing for them. And what we do is our ancestors…we refurbish the
cemetery…fix them up like they out to be, put wrought iron fences and gates and uh…build
cement roads, whatever it takes to get there, we did that. And um, and then, Eli’s buried over
in Crosscreek Cemetery…
AK: Crosscreek Cemetery?
CS: And uh…and so, his family’s buried there and he’s buried beside his first wife because
they had bought the places you know, they had put stones there and so, he was buried there
and then um, when Leyton died, Leonard said “I want to keep my two daddies together.” So
we bought some plots over there and um, and Leyton is buried there…and um my stone’s
already up there… even though I fixed places, these other ancestors’ things and really
worked a long time on it and leader of getting all the money of getting them…
[40 MINUTES]
…people to donate, and um, we know I can’t be buried there. I’d love to be buried there
because all my ancestors going back for…almost to the Revolution and um…but uh…well
we bury there. Anyway, that’s the story. The families…was just one, even though the Stanley
family and the Saleeby family, different they were, all got along good. And all intermingle.
AK: Let me ask you one last question during this segment of the interview. Is there any of
the Saleeby family left in Fayetteville, or are you the only one?
CS: That one niece I told you…she’s here.
AK: She’s here? What’s her name?
CS: Mary Elizabeth Saleeby Council.
AK: Mary Elizabeth Saleeby Council.
CS: Alright now…and she had a sad story too. She had, um, um, well she got married and
her husband died early and left her with a family.
AK: So she’s had a difficult time?
CS: Well, you know, kind of…but um, not like I had it.
AK: Well, let us stop here, we’ll stop here and then we’ll get something to eat and um, finish
the interview by talking about the book and all the work you have done.
CS: OK…
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[Break. The tape jumps to CS discussing a house in Richmond.]
CS: I’ll tell you about this house in Richmond…and it’s the Saleeby family, and um, it was a
great big mansion on uh…Monument Avenue. And um, so what, there was a lot of things
went on in this house. This is a kind of typical, good story…a lot of things went on in this
house. For instance, they were selling Persian rugs, and they had a little storage place in the
back. Well, fancy merchants, you know, from everywhere, they got real famous for their
Persian rugs, all kind of rugs…oriental rugs, and um, so they would come there to buy rugs
from them, and then when immigrants came here, a lot of time he gave them a home. They’d
board him until he could get them started somewhere in business. Sometime selling linen,
sometimes clothes, sometimes they had to haul it on carts, sometimes, you know, later they
had trucks or whatever. But this was a home for immigrants too. He had a big house, and
they would go and stay and uh…talk and he would have them get started in some place of
business. Now this was true for a lot of people in each town…there was usually one older
person there who the immigrants…it was someplace for somebody to go and how to get
started. They had to have somebody…some connection, something to do when they got here.
And um, so, um, they would stay there and then he would get them started in business…we
had the rich merchants coming, we had the immigrants…poverty stricken coming, living in
this house at different times of course, but I wanted to tell you…then family members would
go, it was a place for families to go and uh have a conference or something. Anyway, the
reason I wrote this story was in memory of that house. And um...a memory...what made this
house. And it was recently sold out of the family. The youngest son sold it. And um, he of
course got a brand new house. But uh...he’ll never be home again. He moved part of his
home and his house, but its not home again. Anyway this is what I wrote. We express
homage to this: “They passed this way, the rich merchants and immigrants and the blue
bloods of Virginia. Walked these halls…” and I got the halls there…
[45 MINUTES]
… “walked these halls and sat at the table, and warmed their feet at the fireplaces. The
peddlers and the rich merchants sold their stories…told their stories at night, and family and
friends left their footprints. This mansion at 12…3224 Monument Avenue serves as a mecca
for friends, family members and their descendents for generations. And even when lights are
low…were low and during the storms of the past, they found their way around the halls and
stairways and they peeped through the doors and the windows and watched the traffic of
Richmond’s famous Monument Avenue. As we close this chapter at the Saleeby/Saleeba
home and we march to new quarters…may the roses and sweet shrubs welcome those who
pass and may the…spring breeze sweeten the air and may the snows of winter fall softly on
its towers.”
AK: That’s beautiful.
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CS: I wrote that. Do you like that?
AK: It’s beautiful.
CS: I thought you’d like that and then this man’s picture now…is not of this one, but he’s
another man that did a whole lot. He lived in Sailsbury, North Carolina. And this is his story
and his life…
AK: He’s also a Saleeby? He’s from the Saleeby family?
CS: Yeah. So this is yours… [Hands paper to AK]
AK: Thank you, now this story is part of the book you put together? This is part of the book
you put together? It is?
CS: [nods] Yea. And the family pictures…I’m gonna give you those…or did I give them too
you?
AK: So uh…
CS: Oh wait a minute, just a minute…let me see. I’m missing something… [goes through
papers]. Dedication: “The book is dedicated to the memory of my husband, Eli Saleeba/
Saleeby in honor of our wonderful son, Eli Leonard Saleeby and his wife Elaine Parker
Saleeby. And to the benefits of Saleeby/Saleba association of families. And in recognition of
those individuals who have served this association in leadership roles and in those families
who have supported the operations of the association with monetary contributions. So this is
reason I give it to the association see? And so they own it now…I got five hundred that I’m
selling for them. And so that’s my contribution to the family. And here’s umm….that is
umm…I don’t think you need that. We’ll it’s the sequence of that book…
AK: Right.
CS: Oh…here is one of the people that documented my work.
AK: Well perhaps we can talk about how you came to write this book…because it is a
magnificent accomplishment and I wonder if you could tell us a bit…
CS: I’ll tell you the truth, the Lord helped me. And it moved from not too much…to
much…to terrific.
AK: Well can you tell us from the beginning how the idea for the book came and how you
ended up writing it?
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CS: …the association….we gave them, we started collecting the first meeting here. I started
collecting material and telling them we need to know about the families. I collected material.
And I asked them for pictures…they gave me pictures. It wasn’t too long then, years later,
you know, they said well “Where are the pictures I mailed you…that I gave you. Those are
the only pictures we have. Where are they?” I had to scrounge to try to find those pictures
everywhere. And by that time, they were kind of scattered you know. Well I said “Lord, this
ain’t going to work. I’ve asked for things…I’ve got myself into something.” I said, “This
thing’s not going to work!” and I got all those [inaudible] people looking at me for
something! So I…that was the reason I wrote the book. ‘Cause I already had myself
obligated without knowing it. I thought somebody else was going to write the book…
[50 MINUTES]
…Because there was a daughter of the first one who wrote the book and she said uhh…you
know…it was her father, so he wrote the first part…of I mean, the old book. And I thought
well, she should do it, not anybody else, and the association said she should do it…she
agreed to do it, she kept it for about a month, and we had to buy a recorder and everything
and did that and then she came back with it all…she said, “It’s too much for me, I can’t do
this.” Then we got somebody else to agree to do it…
AK: What was her name? Do you remember?
CS: Helen Saleeby. Her story’s in there.
AK: And she’s from Fayetteville too?
CS: Uh…she’s now in, um, yea she’s in South Carolina and um, and uh…right now
I…anyway her material is in the book. You’ll find her. Her whole family is in there. and
she’ll be identified and you’ll see her. And she’s still living, she’s about 91 or 2. And
anyway, she gave the book up, she said “I can’t do this.” And uh, just the things…we didn’t
have that much…but anyway I was obligated because I had…I was the one who got the
pictures. And uh, and they came to me. And then we got somebody else to rewrite the book.
Wasn’t long before it came back, and it said, all the stuff, I said…and then they said “Well
mother, can you put it together?” So I didn’t just get there, I was thrown there, but I had
started it early without even knowing I was starting it…by asking for material. I said we
ought to keep and we ought to get to know each other’s family and somebody ought to put it
together….and then…somebody ought to take this, an old book, put it together…no luck. So,
I had to do it. And so, I um, started with it and the…the deeper I got into it, I wasn’t going to
do that much. I was just going to do the ones, the families that I knew. And I started off
those, so I started off with those and chose those and started getting mail from everywhere.
And different people and different ones would talk and say “She’s writing a book, she’s
doing this…” and word got around. And I said “Well…” And one day my girl that was
working with me on the computer, I hired her full time, we would start from the morning ‘till
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night and didn’t do anything else. Type and work and keep going. And she was recording.
And that’s when we had to come up with a system to create a database…go back to the old
book and get everything you can, go back to the family trees and get everything you can, and
put it together, and go back to the old history and study it and put that together. Make sure
you got it right. Uh…I had to do all the research, and she did the typing, see, and recording,
and then we had to get a program, we used Family Tree Program, and um Family Tree is
fine, except it doesn’t allow you to put pictures in it and it has a place, though, where you can
tell about each generation. A little place in there, I’m telling you this because your study can
look…you can use this material. Whenever you start looking at them, if there was something
in a story that people wanted to say that was worth writing, if they didn’t write it, I would
write what I knew about them. Or what I could find out about them…and it was a place
where they call “notes.” And so, I could put something there, but to get there pictures of the
family together, that still had to be done differently. And I got pictures and there’s
families…each one’s got the leadership page and a chance to write their own story and
sometimes they did write the story. And sometimes they didn’t, I had to ask for information
and I wrote the story. But anyway, I was getting research and working with people and she
was typing and recording. And when we got our database established, then we could go back
and somebody would write to us and say they are so and so and was born so and so and we
could look back and see well, which line did he come off of? Well we found the family tree,
you know, we finally, through the old history, designed a way…these are the people that all
these people came from. And so, um, there was one name...um...Simon and he…
[55 MINUTES]
…his crowd went to [inaudible, Arabic] and the rest went to [inaudible, Arabic]. You know
the…you can pronounce those words…I’ve never learned how. I can spell them, but I can’t
pronounce them. And anyway, that’s the way it is…and so we went from that point on as we
would…then one day the lady said, “You know, this is getting to be worldwide!” And so, she
named it herself…the Saleeby/Saleeba Family…Worldwide Family From Ancient to Modern
Times.” So she had named it “Worldwide” but it was…and just put that down, thinking we’d
change the name and then I said, now…and it got advertised a little bit and people said
“She’s teaching…” we’re writing a worldwide book. Then I had to say “Well how am I
going to justify writing a worldwide book?” You can see what a mess you can get in to? So
that’s the reason it got to Metropolitans, ok, if he’s in charge of one area and he’s in charge
of this area and he’s in charge over here and he’s in charge over there and who took over
after he got started…and you see you’re getting into who did what and where? And how did
the name get to be Saleeby, Saleeba, Saleebaa? It’s spelled so many derivatives of Saleeby.
Then I had to find out, “Well, what was the first name?” If it was a derivative of Saleeby,
how’d I know that? Go back to old history and find out. Who was oldest in history that was
mentioned? You go back to biblical times, and so he was a Saleeby. And what happened,
they would sell the merchandise and follow the old trade routes and they would associate
with other people and they would go to college, foreign colleges and…the foreign languages
spelled it a different way and then they had to adopt that name because the credentials were
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made that way. I found out how…another reason they came to this country and had different
names…Saleeby names…and then the next big development was the Saleeba name, well my
husband’s name was Eli Saleeby Saleeba. No, Eli Saleeba Saleeby, so I had to go back to his
ancestors…
AK: Ok, she needs to change the tape….
FINISHED WHOLE TAPE. [57 MINUTES TOTAL]
BEGINNING OF PARTIAL TAPE
CS:…this is why, that I had to have personal contacts with family. For instance, a
Metropolitan knows more about who the families are than anybody else, see? So I said,
“Well…we have a cousin who was a Metropolitan…”then I got looking and all the
Saleebas…where they were…everywhere…well they were in charge of whole countries of
it! And I said “Worldwide we can justify the name…” and so we, and then when I went back
to old history, when you can see from ancient times to modern times, you got to have the old
history. So I had to have the old history and I had to have the new history, and how the
names came about and what church they went to. I got to looking at that and said,
“Lord…how these Baptists and Methodists going to think about when they read about…see
all this pictures about Orthodox Metropolitans and uh…and…everything she’s writing about
is Metropolitan….and we’re Baptists…we’re Presbyterian…” then I had to find out why they
were Presbyterians, you know. I had to do the church [inaudible]…so that’s what I gave you
that little story about the church.
AK: Approximately how many Saleeby family members do you think there are in North
Carolina?
CS: What?
AK: Approximately how many members of the Saleeby family are in North Carolina,
today…do you think? Do you have any idea?
CS: Um…well South Carolina’s got a lot. And, uh, North Carolina has got a few. But see the
older ones are dying out now and have died out. And um…but um…there’s more of them in
South Carolina. Now Helen Saleeby lives in South Carolina and when Eli came here, he went
first to Hartsville, South Carolina. And the reason he went to Hartsville was his uncle was
there. Now Hartsville was just little small place at the time. It’s much larger now. But
whenever he…he had there a merchandise company and a produce thing and you know he
started out just selling from a cart or walking and carrying a bag on his back. And that’s the
way he started, but he got where he owned two or three lots there and he had a merchandise
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business and he had a candy company. So Eli and his brother went there cause it was his
uncle….it was a place they could stay, see…
[phone rings in background]
CS…so that’s where they stayed at first. He learned how to make candy, that’s why the
Palace of Sweets, see? He moved from there, I knew something about candy making, and
then he knew something about produce because he was taught that, he knew something about
marketing, cause he had tried to market things for them. But anyway, to run a business he
had to know more than that. But you see, he stayed there…he not knowing where he was
gonna go…with his uncle. And that’s why I say, there’s a person always in a town that helps
somebody else…and that’s the way they did. And now I know you know about Coming to
America, that book, and I got copies of that myself. And I read their stories and its
not…uh…it’s interesting but its not family-style. But this way each person had to
write…could write, their own story, and I invited everybody to do that, to write their story
and send their pictures and each place I’ve talked to…the people who have sent me the
pictures. Um…and anyway…now what was your question, now, get me directed the right
way…?
AK: Oh it’s quite alright. I was just wondering if you know how many people from the
Saleeby family live in North Carolina? But if you don’t…
CS: I don’t know…
AK: It’s not important.
CS: We don’t have as many as many in North Carolina…I don’t think. There are probably
more than I know, you know, or… more that I can come up with immediately. Um, but there
are more in South Carolina, and the ones in North Carolina mainly got their training under
that AB Saleeby, I gave you his picture…
[5 MINUTES ON PARTIAL TAPE, 63 MINUTES TOTAL]
…connected with that other one, and so he was one too who furnished places for them to stay
and eat and teach them how to do things. And he was the one who almost established
Sailsbury…
AK: He almost what in Salisbury?
CS: Almost established Salisbury…
AK: Oh really?
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CS: And he had a cousin there, Eli Saleeby, who bought early stock…they asked him
for…they had helped the Saleebys and one day they asked Mr. Eli to buy some stock with
him and he couldn’t hardly afford it, but he bought some stock with him, in Food Lion, so he
ended up being a very wealthy man.
AK: Ok, let me shift to another topic. You…mentioned and your son Leonard mentioned that
the local church here has had a festival a [Arabic] every year and it’s associated with the
Saleeby family reunion. Do you remember when this started? And how it got started and
what exactly is the purpose of this festival?
CS: Well, um, it was started by…I tell Carol Borrell is the person who has function as the
coordinator for that project. And she has a long list of people, but a lot of them are just
Americans, you know, they’re not Lebanese. But there is some Lebanese. And what she
would do for this occasion is have some Lebanese hors d’ouvres for greeting time, and
family members would go together and make grape leaves…make the hummus and different
things that you make you know, little balls, and make all those kibbeh balls and she…kibbeh
neyyeh too, to have all of it you know, for people to do what they wanted to…to get what
they wanted. And that was mainly for the Lebanese, see. So that buffet course, everybody
was invited, but if you bought a ticket to go there, that was included. And then she put on the
[inaudible]. Now that was for a church…they had a church sponsor for that…Saint Michael’s
church. And she gave all the money that she made, I mean all the money made there went to
the church. And so the church was sponsored, and then it got where it wasn’t making much
money, and we had to reach down into our pockets…Leonard had to do that, one or two had
to do that, cause the rooms got to be so expensive in the hotel and everything went up…you
know, you just had to find another way of doing it. So we did that for a while…for a long
time, then they finally say, it’s just the…the church just doesn’t want to do it anymore,
doesn’t want the obligation. And we’d advertised it as a church function, you know. And so
that’s kind of history of it.
AK: How do you spell Carol’s name, last name?
CS: Borrell, I believe it is. I got one of those folders…I can give you that, I’ll see that you get
it.
AK: OK.
CS: And I can give you her number anytime later. I don’t have it right here, right now.
AK: Well, I think that about covers most of the stuff we wanted to get. So, I wanted to thank
you so much for being generous with your time.
CS: I was so glad to do it and would be interested in how all this comes together…
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AK: We will…
FINISH [66 MINUTES TOTAL]
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Edward and Callie Saleeby Papers
Description
An account of the resource
<h4>Biographical/Historical Note</h4>
<p>The Saleeby-Saliba Relief Association was created in 1916 with the objective of unifying and supporting members of the Saleeby-Saliba family across the Lebanese diaspora. The association sponsored members who emigrated from Syria and Lebanon, aiding them in their transitions to new countries. The association (now called the Saleeby-Saliba Association of Families) focuses on preserving family history and culture, especially through genealogy. Members of the extended Saleeby-Saliba family have documented the family’s diasporic history, including N.D. Saleeby's <em>A Brief History of the Saleeby/Saliba Clan and Their Branches</em>, published in 1950, and its updated version, <em>Worldwide Saleeby-Saliba Family from Ancient to Modern Times</em>, published by Callie R. Saleeby Stanley in 2008.</p>
<h4>Scope/Content Note</h4>
<p>This collection contains three autobiographical accounts of members of the North Carolina branch of the Saleeby-Saliba Family, including iral history and written testimony. The collection represents inter-generational experiences of members of the Saleeby family in North Carolina. The subjects are descended, by blood or marriage, from the same Saleeby ancestor who lived in Souk-el-Gharb in modern-day Lebanon.</p>
Relation
A related resource
<a href="http://lebanesestudies.omeka.chass.ncsu.edu/collections/show/38" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Saleeby Family Papers</a>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Moise A. Khayrallah Center for Lebanese Diaspora Studies
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
The donor retains full ownership of any copyright and rights currently controlled. Nonexclusive right to authorize uses of these materials for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes are granted to Khayrallah Center pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. Usage of the materials for these purposes must be fully credited with the source. The user assumes full responsibility for any use of the materials.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Processed by Khayrallah Center staff. Collection Guide content contributed by Claire A. Kempa and updated by Allison Hall, 2023 December.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Autobiography
Emigration and immigration
Lebanese--United States
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Edward Saleeby
Callie Saleeby Stanley
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2001-2013
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
KC 0047
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
This digital material is provided here for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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Callie_Saleeby_Transcript_CP
Title
A name given to the resource
Callie Saleeby Transcript
Subject
The topic of the resource
Lebanese--United States
Emigration and immigration
Description
An account of the resource
Transcription of interview with Callie R. Saleeby Stanley, conducted by Dr. Akram Khater. 66 minutes (see PDF).<br /><br /> Stanley married into the Saleeby family as a young woman. She was the author of <span>the 2008 genealogy </span><em>Worldwide Saleeby-Saliba Family from Ancient to Modern Times. </em>This interview encompasses her marriage to Eli Saleeby, the birth and childhood of her son Eli Leonard Saleeby, and the circumstances under which she came to write the Saleeby/Salibi genealogy.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Akram Khater
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
The Lebanese in North Carolina Project
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Moise A. Khayrallah Center for Lebanese Diaspora Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013
Contributor
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The Lebanese in North Carolina Project
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
The donor retains full ownership of any copyright and rights currently controlled. Nonexclusive right to authorize uses of these materials for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes are granted to Khayrallah Center pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. Usage of the materials for these purposes must be fully credited with the source. The user assumes full responsibility for any use of the materials.
Format
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Text/pdf
Language
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English
Type
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Text
Immigration
Interviews
Lebanon
North Carolina
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https://lebanesestudies.omeka.chass.ncsu.edu/files/original/e345a1169892295b930028769b90e55a.pdf
cefe770a7793058f0b31d30ac2b92cbd
PDF Text
Text
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Kahdy and Wehbie Family Papers
Description
An account of the resource
<h4>Biographical/Historical Note</h4>
<p>Mike Mettrey (Mikail Mitri) Wehbie was born in Mt. Lebanon on August 8, 1888. His wife, Mary Nehra Wehbie of the Saliba family, was born in Mt. Lebanon on January 25, 1896. Mike Wehbie's family immigrated to the United States in the late 1800s; Mary immigrated in 1906. In the early 1920s, Mike, Mary, and their nine children moved to Bteghrine, Lebanon for three years, where the children attended a French school. Mike and Mary's children were Nell (Nellie) Mettrey Wehbie, William Mettrey, Helen Wehbie, Christmas Wehbie, Amelia Wehbie (Salem), Simon or Sam Wehbie, Margaret Wehbie (Saloom), Marie Wehbie (Mossberg), and Wehbie Mettrey Wehbie. After returning to the United States, the family moved from Elizabeth City, North Carolina to Raleigh, North Carolina. In Raleigh, Mike opened several businesses on Fayetteville Street, including the Log Cabin, which was a popular restaurant and tavern during World War II. </p>
<p>Nell (Nellie) Mettrey Wehbie was born in Elizabeth City, North Carolina on April 30, 1916 to Mike and Mary Wehbie. She graduated From Meredith College in 1938 with a teaching degree and concentrations in English and Foreign Languages. George Kahdy was born in Baskinta, Lebanon on October 6, 1921. George and his parents, Adma Sawaya and Asaf (Assif) George Kahdy, immigrated to the United States when he was 18 months old. George had four sisters: Afifi (Adele), Genee (Janette), Sally, and Virginia. George was raised in Macon, Georgia and attended the Lanier School for Boys where he participated in ROTC. He spent one year at Georgia Tech before volunteering as a buck private in the 30th Infantry Division of the United States Army in 1940. George worked at Fort Jackson, South Carolina training draftees, became a fighter pilot in the Army Air Corps, and taught graduate pilots gunnery and fighter tactics at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.</p>
<p>In 1944, George met Nell Wehbie through his parents, who were friends of Mike and Mary. At the time, Nell was working as a high school teacher in Warsaw, North Carolina. She also worked for the Red Cross in Washington D.C., where she lived with her sister, Amelia, and Amelia's husband, Joe Salem. On July 9, 1944, Nell and George married at Christ Episcopal Church in Raleigh. While George was stationed at Eglin, the couple lived in Milton, Florida. They had their first child, Barbara, on July 14, 1945. On January 16, 1948, they had twins George and Georgette.</p>
<p>The family moved to Knightsdale, North Carolina, where Nell acquired a teaching job and George attended Wake Forest University under the G.I. Bill. After graduating, George taught math and science at Needham Broughton High School, where Nell taught language courses. Nell was honored in the 1950s and 1960s by the American Foreign Language Association as one of the top high school teachers in the United States. While teaching, both Nell and George earned Master's degrees at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In 1956, Nell received a Fulbright Scholarship to study at the Goethe Institute in Munich, Germany for the summer. Through the American Institute of Foreign Studies, she led students and teachers on trips to England, France, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, and Spain for 25 summers. George served as principal of various schools for 13 years, including during the period of school integration. He went on to hold various governmental positions related to education. </p>
<p>Nell passed away in July 2015 and George in September 2023. Barbara Kahdy Estes started a physical therapy practice in Atlanta before moving to the North Carolina mountains. George Kahdy Jr. became a veterinarian and founded a veterinary practice near Raleigh. Georgette Kahdy Stone taught French and Spanish and lives in Charleston, South Carolina.</p>
<h4>Scope/Content Note</h4>
<p>The Kahdy and Wehbie Family Papers primarily relate to the lives of George Kahdy, Nellie Mettrey Wehbie Kahdy, and their three children, Barbara, George, and Georgette. The collection contains photographs, newspaper clippings, correspondence, and other records related to the family and their achievements. The collection also includes images from a trip to Lebanon around 2010.</p>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Barbara Kahdy Estes
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1890s-2010s
Subject
The topic of the resource
Lebanese--United States
Military
Photographs
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Moise A. Khayrallah Center for Lebanese Diaspora Studies
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Processed by Khayrallah Center staff. Collection Guide content contributed by Barbara Kahdy Estes and updated by Allison Hall, 2023 December.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
The donor retains full ownership of any copyright and rights currently controlled. Nonexclusive right to authorize uses of these materials for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes are granted to Khayrallah Center pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. Usage of the materials for these purposes must be fully credited with the source. The user assumes full responsibility for any use of the materials.
Relation
A related resource
<a href="https://lebanesestudies.omeka.chass.ncsu.edu/collections/show/24">Amelia and Joseph Salem Papers</a>
Language
A language of the resource
English
Arabic
French
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
KC 0026
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
This digital material is provided here for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Kahdy2019_245
Title
A name given to the resource
Barbara Estes and an Unknown Woman Smiling
Description
An account of the resource
Barbara Estes and an unknown woman holding onto a pole and smiling.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013
Subject
The topic of the resource
Lebanese--United States
Photographs
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Image
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Image/pdf
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Barbara Kahdy Estes
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Moise A. Khayrallah Center for Lebanese Diaspora Studies
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
The donor retains full ownership of any copyright and rights currently controlled. Nonexclusive right to authorize uses of these materials for non-commercial research, scholarly, or other educational purposes are granted to Khayrallah Center pursuant to U.S. Copyright Law. Usage of the materials for these purposes must be fully credited with the source. The user assumes full responsibility for any use of the materials.
2010s